20: Making (and breaking) “connections”

Sep 16

Connection is a word without time or space. A web just connecting everything to everything else — the closer I look at it, the more spiritual it becomes.

My guest today is Kyle Wood, a business coach for group fitness instructors and also a human design coach.

As such, this episode covers quite some ground:

From Legos to friendship — what is connection really?
What role does Human Design play in the way we connect?
How has connection changed over time (think the internet, covid, etc)?
How do we deal with the pain of broken connections?

Connect with us by listening to this episode:

Note: Transcripts are AI generated. Please excuse any errors! :)
Nicole: [00:00:00] Oh hello, welcome to It's All Poetry, where in each episode we talk about one word, in depth, with one guest. We will bring you surprising word histories, etymologies, our real life stories about words, thoughts on the way we use those words to connect with each other, yeah, basically it's a podcast about words.
My name is Nicole Cloutier, and I am a copywriter, poet, and general word nerd, and I can't wait to dive into this with y'all, so let's get started.
Hi, Kyle.
Kyle: Hello. Hey, Nicole. This is very cool.
Nicole: Yeah, so glad to have you here. I feel like we've talked through email a couple times, but it's, it's great to see your face and hear your voice. Um, for everyone listening, I have Kyle Wood with me today and Kyle does a lot of things. You have business coaching for group fitness instructors and you also have an arm of your business that is in human design.
So Kyle, can you tell [00:01:00] us a bit more about that and what it is that you do?
Kyle: Yeah, that's a good question. So it's been about 15 years, I've had my online business for grip fitness instructors. So it's been a long time and periodically through that time, I've sort of delved into other areas and sometimes bring that back into the main business and also just seeing like, is this something I want to pursue?
Full time like, cause before I was a personal trainer, I was studying engineering and I thought that's what I was going to do. And then I started doing personal training and then I was like, Oh, this is, I really like this. I like this interacting with people face to face. And, this is much more me and actually on today's word, that'll be fun to talk about.
So yeah, so that, that's sort of where that comes from. Why it seems like there's odd mix. And then when I came across human design, I was like, Oh, this is something I want to. I've always sort of geeked out on Clifton StrengthsFinder and Myers Briggs and all those [00:02:00] things as I've come across them, so, but this is the one I've definitely geeked out the most on.
Yeah. I love
Nicole: that. Yeah.
Kyle: Yeah.
Nicole: Um, yeah, the word we're talking about today is connection, which you're right. I feel feels like super relevant to your career as you're talking about it, because I'm curious about like the connections between these different passions that you have.
Right. Um, and I want to ask you before we get too into it, is there a human design reason that you are so multi passionate?
Kyle: Not so much the. Multi passionate. I don't think, I mean, um, so, so my human design types of projector, and we're really here to like guide the process. So some projectors do go like deep down a rabbit hole, but for me, I think there's lots of stuff in my design that's sort of to like seeing things in a world that could be different and then wanting to, to change them.
So wanting to guide the, the change on that. [00:03:00]
Nicole: Yeah. Cool. And do you see that as the connection between, things that you've pursued?
Kyle: Yeah. I think especially with human design, what I saw was I'd always recognized having worked with like thousands of trainers over the years, that like what there's no one way.
And I know you, you talk about this a lot, like in your newsletter, which I love, um, there's no one way to. Like all one formula to like growing a business or writing a piece of copy or, you know, they'll tell you it's what is it pass is a good way or they'll tell you this or that. But, it's really, so what human design sort of did was sort of like reaffirm that and say, Hey, yeah, actually there's, there's different ways that people operate.
And one person over here trying to do it, like this person over here is just going to like burn out. Or really struggled to find traction. And that's why some people just seem to like naturally, um, [00:04:00] you know, find success and things like that, because they're just very much or like break all the rules and find success.
And it's like, well, they're just following their design. So that was really cool to sort of understand that. So I'm trying to work out at the moment. I don't know if I just want to be a human design coach, uh, especially because the industry is a little bit meta in that, like you become a human design coach and then you train other human design coaches.
It's like, that's not really what I want to do. It's like, so I'm, so I'm trying to work out like, how can I bring this, like, it's a tool, like a hammer and someone's tool belt. Um, so that they can just understand, Oh, maybe that, that way of marketing Like, that they already know, just gives them permission to be like, yeah, I don't want to spend all my time on, on social media.
It really makes me feel crap. And it's like, well, yeah, cause you should just be getting out and like meeting people and finding connections through that. So yeah, really cool for that.
Nicole: Yeah, I love that. And [00:05:00] I am a manifester and I run out of energy so fast. I think I only have like three or four hours in me a day of like working.
And then I just hit a wall. It's crazy. Like I absolutely hit a wall and just have to stop. Usually I can do podcasts like that after I hit my wall, but I can't do any more writing. Yeah.
Kyle: Okay. I was going to say like, but do you, do you sometimes have days where you are really into something and you can keep going, but then you find like, You need to rest later.
Nicole: Yeah. Like, like spurts of energy.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Where you'll be like, you'll pull like a massive day, but then the next day it's like, I'm just watching TV today.
Nicole: Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I need days. Like I need to shut off for long periods of time. Yeah. Um, yeah. And human design, I always have felt, I know I'm going on a tangent and I do want to get into our word in a second, but I've always felt a little, um, like hesitant about it just because of the story of.
What's his name? Oh yeah. Yeah. His [00:06:00] seven day trip in Ibiza.
Kyle: Yes, I struggle with that too. Yeah. But
Nicole: at the same time, like there's so much about it that I'm like, oh, but that makes so much sense. And, it has given me a lot of clarity. The little I do know, um, just in the way I work.
Kyle: Mm.
Nicole: Yeah.
Kyle: Yeah. And if you, So, so yeah, there's the funny story about that.
And, but then I've also heard a story that he like sort of pinched it off someone else. And so, yeah, what helps me is remembering that it's actually an amalgamation of a bunch of different tools, like astrology Kabbalah that have been out for, you know, millennia. So then, so when I reframe it that way, it's like, oh, it's just this guy worked at how to put it together.
And you can sort of like Leave the mystical, um, Ibiza experience if you want. Yeah.
Nicole: And hey, I'm, I'm not anti psychedelics. [00:07:00] If that helps you put it together. Okay. Let's dive into our word cause I don't want to put that off too much, but the word we're talking about today is connection. Which I loved doing a little bit of research on, but I want to start out with.
Okay. Your personal story, right? Like you chose this word. So what is your personal connection to the word connection?
Kyle: Yeah, I was actually thinking about this this morning. You go a few different ways. I can talk about when I realized that this is one of my core values, which, I don't know if your listeners are familiar with Brene Brown. She's pretty, Global now. So I've been like listening and reading her work for a while.
And then she brought out a book, a few years ago called dare to lead, which, was more like business focused. And she had an exercise in there on like working out sort of what your core values are. And the approach she took, which was different was to try and get down to just like one value. She's [00:08:00] like, usually this one value.
Often you do these values exercises and you come up with like five values, but that's too many values in some ways, because it's like, since you're too many different, different directions. So she had this exercise of like sort of eliminating these, these values and sort of prioritizing one.
And I ended up with, two, which was community and connection. And that was a really wonderful insight because when I looked at my career as a personal trainer and then in online business, I could really see how I had used community and connection to To grow my business in a different kind of way and also that like when that was missing that sense of connection That's usually when I really like fall off the rails, go into like the sort of existential crisis.
Uh, so yeah, keeping, that, yeah, as a, yeah, as a value is like, Oh, how can I weave that into [00:09:00] this idea that I have for, how can I make sure that each week I'm getting a little bit of this.
Nicole: Yeah. I love that. What do you think is like. An early memory of the word connection that you have, like, do you, do you have a memory that you can pinpoint as when you first used or heard or recognize the word?
Kyle: I guess I just realized I'm talking about this stuff in like interpersonal connections.
Nicole: Yeah.
Kyle: Whereas like you mentioned before, there's like this other element of Different things getting connected together. Uh, I mean, I think it's just like the cliche, like had a bit of a hard time at high school and things like that.
And the dynamic of friendships, changing people, changing schools, things like that, I had to become very good at making connections with people quickly. So there was that like [00:10:00] aspect of, of. It's like a most like a survival mechanism. And then that served me in my twenties really well, cause I could interviews and getting to know people and things like that.
And then it wasn't until later I realized , Oh, this is actually like a really big defense mechanism and I need to work out like a healthy way to do this where I'm not just like chameleon, chameleon sort of myself, to what other people want. So, so yeah, going back to like, Yeah, that teenage sort of years.
Nothing comes to mind sort of before then. Other than, yeah, in terms of like friendship, I've got friends who. I've been friends with since I was like, couldn't probably barely talk. So there's like these old sort of long term connections, in my life as well. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah.
I don't think I have that all of, I've always like my whole life I've had trouble making connections. Um, and I didn't move around a lot. [00:11:00] I just. Yeah. Yeah. Was a very shy child. Even though I was a pageant child, which maybe contributed to my shyness, being on stage made me more shy. Uh, but most of my like lasting connections there.
Like my college connections aren't even that strong. I would say they're all from like, um, 2015 on like after grad school for me, uh, are my strongest connections.
Kyle: Yeah. So there's a big gap. So I've got those friends from then, which was formed, you know, when we were like very little children.
You don't judge each other and then yeah, but like in terms of we didn't go to school together. We were grew up in the same neighborhood. But the people like, yeah, I don't really keep in touch with people from school.
Nicole: Um, but one of, I was thinking about connection. I like to think about like the.
Are the earliest way we use a word, I think can inform the way that we continue to think about it. And when I think of connection, I think of connecting blocks is the first thing that came to my mind, like physically, doing puzzles [00:12:00] or like making physical, Really? I don't, I don't.
Kyle: You don't? No. Yeah, because you're a manifesto and you're like, this is stupid.
Like this shouldn't, I don't want it to be this way.
Nicole: Yeah. Like why do I want to spend my time putting this together? I don't know. My, uh, my nephew had me helping him do Legos. He, I love him. He's great. But, um, I don't really like doing Legos. I hope he doesn't listen to this podcast, but yeah, we were doing Legos.
I was like, oh my gosh, I can't figure this out.
Kyle: And I like Legos. But like, I'm like, I just want to build to the instruction. I'm not like a, what do they call it in the Lego movies? Like a master builder who can build all sorts of stuff. I'm like, no, the instruction says to do it this way.
Um, so yeah, so that, that is interesting as well. And I actually can be that way in my relationships as well. I worked with a coach for a while and he had me, We sort of looked at like my, my shadow side, some of how it comes out and came up [00:13:00] with, silly names to describe it different parts of me.
Uh, so that, you know, I could sort of call myself out on it and have a bit of a laugh. And one of them was controlling connector. It's like, I'll be friends with you, but it has to be in this like. Specific way on, on my schedule when it, you know, it does. Yeah. And then be disappointed when it doesn't, it doesn't go to that.
So that actually was a good insight that maybe sometimes I'll try and control those connections too much.
Nicole: That, that is a really cool insight. Cause it's one of your values, but there's like a shadow side to the value.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes me think. Definitely.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, one of my values is curiosity.
And now I'm wondering, cause I did, I've done the Brene Brown, um, and that might speak to my three, five, my manifesto three, five curiosity feels like a value that belongs in that. Right. Isn't three. Isn't three like wanting to try lots of things.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. It's like [00:14:00] lots of experimenting and, and learning sort of through doing.
Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah, um, but I wonder if there's a shadow side to my curiosity. I might have to think about that a little more. Well, let's talk about the definitions. Um, and normally, so with a word like connection, like normally what I like to do is look at the more root version, right? Look at connect. But I actually think, Connection itself has a like as a noun.
So right now, as a verb has a more interesting kind of history. So we're going to go with the whole word. So, of course, the first definition is the act of connecting, the state of being connected. Um, like the connection between two ideas. And The second definition is the contextual relation or association, right?
So in this connection, the word has a different meaning, so the connection between two meanings, um, and then there [00:15:00] is, so we've talked mostly about connections with people, right? But then of course there's connections, between facts. Like this person is wanted in connection with a robbery.
Like that is a cool way that we use it that I wouldn't have thought of just brainstorming on my own. And then there's connection. Like when we talk about travel, right? A connection between flights. Um, there's connection in relationship that's more than just personal, but like, my business has a connection with.
the, this, the local, university, right? So like a business connection or arrangement. Yeah. And then connection, what the definition that surprised me the most was a source of contraband, such as illegal drugs. Like my, I have a connection for marijuana was one of the definitions and Merriam Webster. So
Kyle: that was really funny.
Nicole: But I think the point of like all of these definitions is that, and this, so I often like to look at [00:16:00] the dictionary, the Webster dictionary from 1828, uh, and that definition is usually longer and more poetic. Um, and I might read the whole thing in a minute, but the part I want to call out is at the very end of this definition, it says in short.
The word is applicable to almost everything that has a dependence on relation to another thing.
Kyle: Hmm.
Nicole: That's super broad. Yeah. Does anything in there stand out to you?
Kyle: Just mostly how, like in my mind, I've, I've been like, Oh, it's about, you know, connecting to other people. Like in like my brain has overridden the other sort of connection thing and, and being like, Oh yeah.
It's about relationships. And then just. Coming back to that. There's, there's lots of different ways. Yeah. That this can be applied as, as summed up by the final statement you made.
Nicole: Yeah. [00:17:00] It is such a broad word. And it feels like it lives in many different realms, right? Like the connection between people feels.
spiritual almost, right? Or connection, a connection to a deity or a connection to a belief, like we have all these connections, but then there's also very, very physical manifest manifestations, like a connection between flights. Yeah, or like a physical link. I'm thinking of like, The connection between two train cars, right.
It's like something that feels very like concrete.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah.
Nicole: So it seems to span realms, I guess, is what I'm saying. It feels like a, a word that goes between worlds. I guess it connects worlds. Um, okay. So the etymology is. Pretty simple. It's what we would expect. It's to join, bind, or fasten together. It's from, the Latin connecter, which is to join together.
So it didn't, [00:18:00] really take on the meaning of to establish a relationship until 1881.
Um, 1926, it started meaning to like get in touch with, which is kind of connected to the Uh, telephone connections. So 1926, now, now connection suddenly means we're going to call each other. And then 1942, we start to see it mean like to awaken meaningful emotions or to establish rapport, like a connection with self.
And apparently narcotics didn't come until like 1934. Uh, so that's like the timeline of the word. So do you see a connection between the way we use the word more today and that original to bind or fasten together?
Kyle: Yeah, something that comes to mind is in terms of like, how it's different to how it's different in modern times is that, I think it was in, Cal Newport.
I don't know if you're with his books, digital [00:19:00] minimalism. Which actually if you're, if you're interested in, cause I originally heard you on off the grid. So if you're interested in, in that kind of mindful technology, you see, you'll, you'll enjoy that. Uh, he's got good stuff anyway on like working and writing and stuff.
So yeah, I think it was in there and he talked about how, like when we message with people or use social media, it triggers this part of our brain that thinks We are connecting with other people. So there's this like part of our innate human ness that needs us, that we need to connect with other humans.
So triggers is part of our brain that thinks we need it, but we're not getting all of like the other. Like, oxytocin and, and things like that, that we would normally get from interacting with people, but we are getting like the dopamine hit. So we kind of get stuck in this treadmill of, we keep trying to get the [00:20:00] full connection experience and our brains are kind of confused thinking.
I am getting it. I can get it through this, but we're not actually getting like the full upside that we would, being actually in the same physical space with someone. So, so I think about that, like we go from this very like rudimentary, or very like simple definition of like, just binding two things together.
And then, Later, it's that we start using it to talk about like connecting with other people and now we're like in this modern and modern times Where you know in our minds were like I'm connecting with people through my phone but actually like now we're not getting the full connection experience that we would have.
Yeah. Like a hundred years ago.
Nicole: Yeah. That's yeah. That's interesting. It's interesting too. Like when we looked at the definitions that the, it wasn't until 1926, of course, that we started using connection to me and get in touch with, which is more what we're doing [00:21:00] like through our phones. Right. So.
Kyle: Yeah.
Yeah. Or I even think of like people talk about like connecting with your audience, like from a. Online business perspective. So like writing a newsletter and stuff like that, where it's that one way, or I thought of that before, cause in school I did a lot of like music and arts and stuff like performing arts, even though I was like studying again, the two sides studying like science and stuff, I've, I've got to balance myself out or else I go crazy.
Um, and, and like that was, you know, during a time when it was difficult maybe for me to connect with people in a one to one setting. Um, so that was another way of doing it. So that's something we haven't talked about as well, whereas I kind of like one way connection.
Nicole: Yeah. Connecting with your audience.
Yeah. And then of course, like I spend a lot of time in the marketing world and, one of the things they always teach is to build this customer avatar, Like to build like a [00:22:00] compilation of your perfect client, that becomes like a, a Frankenstein of all your perfect clients. And usually like the bigger companies will create this profile.
That's like a stock image. And then they have three kids and they live here and they make this much money. And they, you know, like they create these webs of like the perfect person for their brand. And they use that to create connection. But it's very disconnected. Like a
Kyle: to a made, made up person. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of these big brands, they're, they're, they're trying to build connections Yeah. With a made up person,
Kyle: which is, I guess, hard when you're trying to like, connect with thousands, hundreds of thousands of millions of people at once. Mm-Hmm. . It, it's funny how they're still going back to like, how do we connect to one person, even if they're a made up person.
So even though we're doing this like. Wide reaching. We're still trying to like, get back to that one. My wife's [00:23:00] watching Mad Men at the moment. So it's making me think of Don Draper as well. He was always very good at that. Like getting to the essence, like who is the actual person that we're trying to help right now?
Nicole: Yeah. Do you think that this, like, we've reached a point where people are a bit more wary of connections because of this?
Kyle: Yeah. So yeah, like 15 years and you used to be able to just. Be like come across someone's site. I just email them like find their contact form. Hey, what's up? I like your stuff This is my stuff.
Like do you want to catch up for a zoom? Well, you know back then it was skype um and then they would but now like I know personally like I get Six to ten emails probably a day That those are the ones that aren't getting filtered by my spam that are like Just someone using their CRM to, to contact me.
And so I feel like overwhelmed. So there could be like some genuine [00:24:00] connection attempts coming through that, but unless it's like a reply, if it's a reply to like my newsletter or something like that, that's different, you know, I'll pick up, but yeah, just like that sort of cold reaching out. To someone who you feel like you might be able to connect with over something that's really changed And I found that on the other end of that too because I'll be like Someone in my audience will be like this person's really cool.
You should check him out and i'll go Send them because I don't really use Instagram so I can't like slide into people's DMS Well, although that's another area that just gets inundated But yeah, I'll go, you know, send them an email and you just don't hear anything back So sometimes that like I think it's yeah, it is harder to Start a new connection with someone because we're just like overwhelmed inundated.
Nicole: Absolutely. Yeah. Like we've all, I think we've reached a point in the internet where we've all put up a little bit like of a wall, like out of necessity, I'm not saying we shouldn't have the walls, like they need to be there, [00:25:00] I think to protect ourselves.
Kyle: Actually I've got a good example there
So like I, uh, like seven years ago, my wife and I moved out of, Melbourne, which is like one of the main cities in Australia. And we're about two hours from there now in a smaller town. And, you know, if you're walking along straight and you walk past someone, you say, hello, you know, you just say, Hey, how you doing?
You know, walking along the beach, just say, Hey, how you doing? But when I go to Melbourne, it's like, that's just become part of my, like who I am. And especially if there's like 50 people around and walking along a busy street, I'm not trying to say hello to everyone, but like, certainly if I'm walking down the street, it's just me and the person I'll try and say hi to them.
And you just get, You just get nothing from them. And I remember being really like angry, or not angry, just like having a rant to my friend about it. I mean, like, what is this? Like, they're so rude. And she's like, no, they're, they're overstimulated. They're like, they're passing hundreds of people every day.
So [00:26:00] it's just natural, they just have to switch off. They can't say hi to, I mean, could say hi to everyone, I guess, but not really practical to say hi to everyone. So it's not that they're being rude, it's not that they're like, it's just, yeah, there's just too much. So yeah, that's, I think of that same analogy with like the internet these days, where there's so many people grabbing for our attention and trying to connect with us.
Nicole: Yeah. And I actually, in my, my business now. Is mostly built well, mostly on network. If I'm being honest, like mostly on like people who've already worked with me, recommending me to other people. But then there's like 20 percent of my business. Yeah. I'd probably say that's right. Like 80, 20, 20 percent of my business is cold pitching.
So reaching out to people without them asking. Yeah. Um, and I think. This might be a bit of a tangent, but I think it works as long as it's not copy paste, like as long as it's genuine, like I [00:27:00] can't, you can't mask cold pitch. Like, I just don't think that that may be used to work. It does not work now. My pitches are, I send four, four a week tops and they're very, very personal and like only to people I actually really want to work with.
Kyle: That's awesome. Yeah. Cause yeah, the stuff I'm getting is like, it's very like copy paste. And I, yeah, I'm just like, when it first started happening, I was like, Who is teaching this?
Cause it was like, I know there's some online course out there and someone said, this is how you do it. And I'm like, now I've just become kind of, yeah, kind of numb to it. You just go through and you just, especially through the contact form, just quickly glance to make sure it's not an actual customer.
And then just like delete. Um,
Nicole: yeah. So a lot of them are copy paste or they're chat GPT now. Um,
Kyle: yeah.
Nicole: Which I'm not anti AI, even as a copywriter, I'm not anti AI. I find it useful in helping me, like, organize information. But you can kind of tell when you get a pitch that is [00:28:00] AI.
Kyle: Yeah. You had a good thing the other week about, um, subject lines, which we could There's a good conversation about, connecting.
Yeah. You know, that's what a subject line is. It's like you're trying to connect with the person. With people, you know, well, I guess if it was even with an individual email, right? You're trying to connect with someone very quickly through a sentence.
Nicole: Yeah, well, I think. And my subject lines for my cold pitches are super, super clear.
They're just like copywriting for your project. Like, I feel like sometimes people for cold pitches, they try to use subject lines that are tricky, that like try to trick someone into opening it, you know? But I, I mean, if they don't want to, Copywriting. I don't need them to open up. Like I don't, there's like, like you can decide right away.
And I feel like in this, and this is a Brené Brown quote, right? Clarity is kind, like being clear [00:29:00] is, is a very kind form of connection. Um, subject lines for like mass emails, I think can be a little more fun.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a new, like a newsletter when someone's like, they've said, yes, please email me.
Uh, no, I love the, the mass ones where they get to like the third email and they're like, They're like, well, I guess you don't want to hear from me. And you start getting like all this like attitude from them and you're like, well, I'm definitely like, they're sort of trying to guilt you into like contacting them.
And it's like, definitely not going to hear from me now. Yeah. Not going to open that door. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. Like, oh yeah. They try all the tricks on you.
Nicole: Yeah, that's mean though. That's mean. What, what subject lines get you to open?
Kyle: Oh, that's good. Um, it depends. Uh, because like, if I like the author, like you could just [00:30:00] write like new newsletter because yours is one of the newsletters I read each week.
So you could just write like new newsletter and I'm like, Uh, you don't even need to have anything fancy. So, so yeah, it depends like how much. Let's try and tie it back to our words. We were saying, depends how much of a connection I feel like I already have with like that person. But, you know, I'm still, I feel like I'm a bit of a sucker for a list post, but it has to be like related to something I'm already working on at the moment.
Whereas like in the past, I would just like, I think about like how many blog posts and things I used to read each week. Um, and now I don't read anywhere near as many, uh, because I don't know, it feels like the, the quality is maybe not there. So I guess that's what I'm looking for in the subject line is some hint that there's going to be good use of my like [00:31:00] time probably, and, or maybe like an angle I haven't thought of before.
And then like, yeah, it is bad. Like I don't, I don't subscribe to a huge number of newsletters these days cause I don't open them. So I'm like, well, that's not a point. I like cluttering up. I used to feel like, Oh, I want to support this person by being on the newsletter.
And then in general, probably like shorter. shorter subject lines tend to get me to click. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in my career, I've written a lot of subject lines and I do usually for other people, I do find it changes. Like it evolves what subject lines people want to open. And sometimes it changes kind of suddenly and quickly.
Uh, but yeah, right now, bit of industry insight is shorter, shorter subject lines with a little like personality. Seem to be what do, what do, what are doing the best across the board for my clients. Um, and an emoji at the end, it used to be a lot of [00:32:00] the beginning, but now it's an emoji at the end of the subject.
Yeah.
Kyle: Yeah, I guess the emoji at the beginning you've inbox It's again, like your eyes. Become, used to it. And like when I started doing online stuff, not everyone was doing products and I like products, but a lot of people were blogging for ad content, putting ads and you get paid per click from Google and, or whoever you're using.
And, it was the same thing with that. It was like, well, you want to put the ad here because people were becoming blind to like text ads, which is just funny now because. It's all like image, image ads now. You know, when you go to like try and get a recipe off a website and like, you can't see the recipe for the, and I just like, this experience is so terrible.
Like you're probably not making money. Where's the money? There's one recipe site we really like and she has got ads on it, but she's been really thoughtful about where she's put them [00:33:00] so that like they, you can still go in there and like you get a recipe and she's just massive. The site makes so much money.
Yeah, anyway, that's another thing of like over optimizing.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, and that's like, to bring us back to the word too, that's like abusing connection, you know, I feel like in the marketing of copywriting, a phrase that I've seen a lot of new, new copywriters, especially use in their own marketing is like, I write copy that connects.
So that's become like connection has become a way to sell copywriting and marketing. And I always struggle with stuff like this. I talked to someone recently on the podcast. It's not published yet. It will be by the time that this one is published, but on the word authenticity.
And I think there's like a similar thing here where there are words that are meaningful. That once we start using them a lot in our marketing become less meaningful. And I feel like connect might be suffering from that a little bit. [00:34:00] What do you think?
Kyle: Yeah.
And so what comes up for me is so I work with a lot of trainers in group fitness. And, the reason people tend to stick with group fitness is. Not for the fitness, but for the connections they make either with the trainer or the other people. And so like, that's an important part of like growing, um, that you make, that you're fostering those connections.
And so it's, it's a wonderful thing. But since COVID and especially in Australia, where the lockdowns were really prevalent and you know, it's, it's funny talking about this stuff. Cause it's like, well, it's been years now, surely. Surely things are like back to normal, but it does seem from me speaking to trainers that there is, this is global globally,
because the way, yeah, maybe people want to connect to shifted to like online through devices and things like that. They've forgotten how to connect. Like in, so [00:35:00] like going to a group fitness class is now intimidating because now I've got to deal with social anxiety because I've forgotten how to like just be in space with other people.
And so I was seeing that be a bit of a theme as well. So you're talking about like connecting and becoming overused. And I think it's not resonating with people as hard or as strongly as it used to, because maybe it's being saturated, but maybe there's also a little bit of fear around it as well.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I've always struggled with social anxiety, so I don't know if mine got worse after COVID. I guess maybe it did. I probably just enjoyed not having to connect with people, but I mean, one of the main reasons I started doing this podcast was not even. Like I said, my business is built on a more one on one scale.
It's networking and cold pitching. So it started this podcast. Wasn't even a huge business move for me. It was like, I feel like it is for a lot of people. Um, it was more, cause [00:36:00] I was looking for these conversations. Like I was looking for a connection. I was like, wow, I sit at my computer all day typing stuff.
I'm alone
Kyle: all the time
Nicole: and I run out of energy. So then I just like watch. Something, the rest of the day. But yeah, like this, like finding ways to connect. And I do my fitness on an app, so that's not even connection.
Like I need the, I need the zooms,
Kyle: yeah. I do want to mention just from the human design angle. For those who are curious. So like, because as a manifesto, like you can be quite, I can understand why you feel that way because manifestos can be kind of polarizing because you're like, Well, you can see like what needs to be done in the world.
And like, you're here to make change in the world. And that can be really like threatening to other people. So there's some people out there who would just be like, I'm not into you. So that's why like, you might do everything you can to create a good connection with someone.
Um, and they're still like, I don't like you for no reason. [00:37:00] I
Nicole: don't know.
Kyle: It's an energetic thing. And so like, I was, so as a manifesto, the best thing you do is like, stop, putting energy into those people because you're like, you're naturally the people who like you will love you and then there'll be people who just like, don't like you no matter what you do.
So you, yeah, you're better off just focusing on the people who, who do like you. Um, and yeah, that's it.
Nicole: I hate that.
Kyle: I know I can see it. It's like this little like people pleaser person going on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, see, you've got that fifth year. We talked about your third line before, which is like the experiment of the fifth line.
It's like the problem solver. So, which, which I can understand why like cold pitching works a little bit for you because Um, cause that's what you, you're here to like initiate other people. So like, if you email me and I'm like picking up on your manifesto vibe and your vibe that you can solve problems for me, but for you, [00:38:00] your wisdom is really in like knowing which problems to solve.
So I would say that would, that maybe goes hand in hand with like connecting with other people.
Nicole: Um,
Kyle: and you've got to realize like, yeah, sometimes that's not a problem that's worth your energy. You said before you run out of energy to solve. Um, yeah.
Nicole: Okay, that's good. I'm getting, I like this. I'm getting a little impromptu reading.
Yeah. No, that, that's awesome. I, and I do like, I've related a lot. The more I've learned about, three, five, especially I've related a lot to that. Just the idea that like, I think I read somewhere that like, I'm supposed to bump into things and then tell people about it, like, like try a bunch of things and then come back and teach people about it.
And I was like, Oh, I get that. Yeah.
Kyle: Yep.
Nicole: So it's like, okay, then I keep like making mistakes in life.
Kyle: Yes. That's the biggest thing with a third line is to, is to, I live in a house with my oldest has this, and my wife has [00:39:00] this, and when I got into human design, that was, that was probably one of the biggest selling points for me.
It was like, when we looked at my chart and we looked at my wife's chart, we were just both like, Like it just explained, so we're, we're 16 years together this year. So it just explained so much of like the little like bits that we still would frustrate each other with. Um, and helped us really accept that part of each other.
And that was one of the things that's like, she's just gonna learn through mistakes. And sometimes that means like making a mistake like a bunch of times, but the beauty of the third liner. So then you've got that. Like. You've learned through doing so you think you can then turn around and say to people, Hey, look, I've, I've mucked this up a bunch and I know what I'm talking about.
Nicole: So do you think, I like, I like the way you put that of after being together, even 16 years, like you and your wife, almost like you developed a deeper connection after learning [00:40:00] more about each other's human design.
Kyle: Yeah. Yep.
Nicole: I love that.
Um, okay, cool. I think this conversation has been awesome because we've gone, like we've gone in a bunch of different directions, like relationships, marketing, right? But it's all connected. It is. No, no.
Kyle: Sorry. If we've been all over the place, hopefully it's been interesting.
Nicole: But it, it only, it honestly only makes sense for a word. That is so all encompassing, right? Like there are, we, we've gone in a few different directions, but I feel like there are so many different directions we could go. Like the word itself is like a, a web. Yeah. I mean, it connects everything. . Yeah. Like I feel, I, it's funny, I, the more we talk about it, like I feel very spiritually about this word.
Like I, I, I feel myself like revering it in a way.
Kyle: Yeah. I think that's, yeah. Connection has always felt that way to me. Because, because I'm like. You [00:41:00] know, always identify more as like an introvert that the connections, especially with people in my life are like really important, really meaningful. And it used to kind of weird me out when I'd like, especially when I was, going to more sort of like internet based conferences and stuff like that.
And someone who I've met like once would refer to me as their friend, you know, they'd be talking to someone else or, or they'd write a, write something like, Oh, my friend, Kyle. And I'll be like, yeah. Uh, I wouldn't really call us friends cause even that, like, yeah, someone who's a friend is like, is like right up there.
It's like a special, special thing. And maybe that's the, I don't know, maybe that's the controlling side of me. But yeah, that, but that, yeah, it is really like, it is really meaningful. And if I have a connection with someone, it's like, it's very important to me. Um, and it's really like, it's really painful when that connection ends.
Like even when a friendship ends or something like that, like I have had in the past a lot of trouble [00:42:00] letting that, letting that be, letting that, you know, people try to explain to me, well, it's normal, like some friendships are just sometimes people are just in your life for a few years and then they, they, you know, that's it.
And I'm like, no, so yeah, it, it does have a very like, it. Spiritual meaning to me as well. This word
Nicole: yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. It, um, like the idea of a broken connection or a missed connection. Like there's something very, very painful about that.
Kyle: Mm-Hmm. .
Nicole: Um, even if it's just a misconnection on a flight.
Kyle: It's
Nicole: painful. . Yeah.
Kyle: Yeah.
Nicole: Um, yeah. I think it's one of the only words I've talked about like this, that it, it feels. Like, yeah, like breaking, breaking it is, uh, breaking it as a painful thing.
We, we do hold onto them so tightly. I've had friendships that end and it's like, Oh, Oh, that hurts so, so much.[00:43:00]
Kyle: Yeah. And I guess if, uh, we were bought a store, what does it even like, is it Hindi? They have the. God of destruction, so it's like, it's like a natural part of life is the ending of things, the destruction of things. And I've always struggled with that as well, but it is, I guess, natural and actually human design has been, helpful in that way because, there is like sort of an aspect of like clearing things out to make space for other things.
So yeah. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah, so connections must break.
Kyle: Yeah. Some.
Nicole: We need to take that lesson.
Okay. Well, we're reaching the end of our time. Do you feel any differently about the word connection now than you did at the beginning of our conversation?
Kyle: Yeah. I think, like I said earlier, I always really associated with relationships for now. I see it broader, I think. That's a broader [00:44:00] word encompassing more things.
Nicole: And then I have one more question for you, and then we can tell everyone where to find you. But if the word connection had a human design type, what human design type would it be?
Kyle: You know, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, and I'll feel my discreet, I'm going to say the reflector because, so reflectors have no - -. defined centers. And we, we, well, does your centers make up a lot of who you are? They make up your type, they make up your, your authority.
Like, so there's a lot of information there. And that means that they can be kind of like a chameleon and they, they take on the designs of people around them. So, they're kind of the ultimate connectors because they can come into. To anyone and they can, they can adapt to with that. And then, so there'd be things just making sure they didn't have that like time [00:45:00] to reconnect to themselves afterwards.
But yeah, it's a real gift that they have to be able to like come in and then help the other person kind of elevate and lean into their own powers. Um, so
Nicole: yeah, I'm
Kyle: going to say reflected and I, and then you can say it like, or hear it when you speak to reflect it, especially once you've then found that wisdom of having that time to disconnect that there.
They're like really good listeners. They're, you know, the actors kind of like a mirror. Um, to, um, to people. So they help people connect with themselves as well.
Nicole: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's something we didn't talk about much is connecting with ourselves, which I do think is a big way that we use the word today.
We do use that
Kyle: word. A lot. How did we, how did we skip that? I just had a bath yesterday. Cause you know, I've been, I'll tell you before we started, I've been sick and I was connected at a bath, watching a movie. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah. I'm trying to think, I kind of want to wrap up with like a, a rapid fire. Like what other things did we miss? [00:46:00] Connect with nature. We miss, like, connect with,
Kyle: like I'm a parent, so even like, uh, connecting, you know, with your kids or connecting with your parents, comes to mind as well, cause that's like, you know, you're in very different spaces, um, I guess we didn't talk about maybe like the different is like verbal or written connection, but there's also like connection through art and visual.
Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah. And through art, through art, there's a connection through time. Like if you read something from 200 years ago,
Kyle: yeah, I have to do a part two then.
Nicole: All right. Well, thank you so much, Kyle. This has been awesome. I really, I, I kind of fell in love with this word in a way I didn't really realize I would.
So, so thank you for
Kyle: that.
Nicole: Yeah. Um, thanks
Kyle: for having me on.
Nicole: Yeah. For people who are listening, where can they find you on the internet? Where should they go to connect with you? ? [00:47:00]
Kyle: Uh, if they happen to be in the fitness industry, then they can go to bootcamp ideas.com. Uh, otherwise, yeah, if they want more about human design, I run a, a podcast.
Podcast, a podcast with a cohost. Where we talk about human design, especially around like being like, uh. a wellness sort of practitioner as well, like how to apply that to your business. That's called well designed. You can find that on all podcasts. There is a, there is like an architectural podcast called well designed.
It's not that one. It's the one with the human design chart in the logo. So you should be able to find it.
Nicole: Cool. Yeah. And we'll link to that. We'll link to that on the, wherever you're listening to this, it will be linked somewhere in the text nearby. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Kyle. It's been so great to chat and I really appreciate you coming on.
Kyle: Thanks for having me, Nicole. Again, yeah, it was good. This has just been a nice way to connect to you.
Nicole: [00:48:00] Thank you so much for listening to It's All Poetry. You have no idea what it means to me to have you here. This podcast is recorded and produced and edited by yours truly. I've had to learn a lot of tech, y'all. You can find all the resources and links from this episode in the show notes. At Nicole copy.com/ it's all poetry.
The music you hear throughout is by Jack Pierce. And if you enjoyed this episode, there is a bunch of other stuff that you might want to check out from my weekly newsletter with marketing prompts to one-on-one copy coaching for your business to branding guidance, uh, and more things that I'm not even aware of at the time of this recording because I add stuff all the time.
But it's all right there@nicolecopy.com. Thanks again for loving words with me. I'll see you next time.

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Looking for more info on Kyle?

Learn more about Kyle Wood at ⁠bootcampideas.com⁠
He also has his own podcast with cohost, Brandi Healy, called “Well Designed” (the human design one, not the interior design one 😉).
All music is by Jack Pierce
Connect with the podcast team (i.e., Nicole!) at ⁠itsallpoetry.podcast@gmail.com⁠